|
Author
|
|
Thread
|
|
|
|
|
SethPowell
Junior Member
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 19
|
|
|
It appears that there are in fact "Teach Yourself Zulu" and "Teach Yourself Xhosa" cassette courses available; in addition to "T.Y. Afrikaans" this brings to four the number of SA's official languages (including English) that I could ever hope to have any proficiency with. The other seven, that I can remember, are
Ndebele
Venda
Southern Sotho
Northern Sotho
Tswana
hmmm...that's all I remember. And frankly, I'm not sure if the two Sotho's are separate official languages (perhaps the other one could be renamed Northo?), or if Tswana is one of SA's tongues, because I thought that was spoken in Botswana. UNLESS (again) I'm thinking of Setswana (my version should be called Seth's Swana!), and again that's assuming Setswana is different from Tswana. Because, I mean, in Malawi, they speak Chichewa, but it's been written that you should write the name of that language as chiChewa, because it is merely the language of the nice Chewa folks and "chi" is their prefix meaning "language" or "speech." So maybe Setswana is the same as Tswana.
Well, I hope I've clarified a few things here today for y'all. Is there a cool native language in SA that would be handy to know all throughout the land? I thought Zulu and Afrikaans were spoken only in Cape Province; I'm not even sure where Xhosa predominates.
I'm curious if there are any non-English languages that aren't super-ultra-highly-localized.
Dankie,
American Seth
|
|
|
12th July 2002 04:59
|
|
Allan
Senior Member
Registered: Nov 2000
Posts: 261
|
|
|
Languages
We have 11 official languages,crazy I know, but it was done primarily not to offend anybody.
Afrikaans is certainly not localised to the Western Cape, it is widespread throughout the country. In fact if it weren't for the large Cape Coloured population, English would dominate there.
Xhosa is found primarily in the Eastern Cape and increasingly in the Western Cape.
The traditional stronghold of Zulu is in Kwazulu Natal, but has long been dominant in Gauteng as well, and is by far the most spoken language in SA.
There is meant to be a close relationship between Zulu and Xhosa.
Tswana is certainly not restricted to Botswana.
Which to choose? If you're going to spend time in the Cape, Xhosa, else Zulu or Sotho. (As to the difference btw northern and southern Sotho, your guess is as good as mine).
|
|
|
12th July 2002 10:37
|
|
Allan
Senior Member
Registered: Nov 2000
Posts: 261
|
|
|
I suppose I should add that if you're concerned with difficulty, stick too Afrikaans, it's by far the simplest language to learn. But then again if as a white person you were able to speak Zulu fluently, or any other of the black languages, you'd certainly turn a lot of heads.
|
|
|
12th July 2002 15:46
|
|
SethPowell
Junior Member
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 19
|
|
|
"But then again if as a white person you were able to speak Zulu fluently, or any other of the black languages, you'd certainly turn a lot of heads."
Fluency in any case is a long way off!!
But some months ago I read an obituary in the Los Angeles Times of a white South African fellow who was editor of a Xhosa-language newspaper; if I remember right the obituary said Xhosa was his native tongue.
Sorry I can't remember the chap's name; just that he had been a strong leader in the anti-apartheid battle.
|
|
|
12th July 2002 20:18
|
|
Allan
Senior Member
Registered: Nov 2000
Posts: 261
|
|
|
A Xhosa language newspaper - I've never heard of such a thing. Several months ago there was a bit about the launch of hype of the first ever Zulu language publication.
I wonder if it was the late Donald Woods whom you read about, former editor of the East London based Daily Despatch, before he was banned by the Apartheid government for his critical editorials.
I never said no whites speak Zulu or Xhosa. My Grandfather could speak Zulu fluently, and I have a couple of friends who can speak Xhosa. The whites who can speak a black language are a minority, usually farmers, where as a vestige of a patronising tendancy amongst whites, blacks are sometimes described as "raw" or even worse, "fresh out the bush" and are unable to speak English/Afrikaans.
|
|
|
12th July 2002 21:16
|
|
SethPowell
Junior Member
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 19
|
|
|
Donald Woods - definitely that was the chappie I read about.
If the paper he edited was English-language, I wonder why Xhosa was mentioned in the obituary?!?
Well, that was the decision made by the Los Angeles Times. But I still think you should explain it.
|
|
|
14th July 2002 01:25
|
|
Allan
Senior Member
Registered: Nov 2000
Posts: 261
|
|
Donald Woods
Donald Woods was one of the heroes of the national liberation struggle in South Africa. He was essentially an ordinary man, who loved music, chess and, above all else, cricket. But he was an ordinary man, in extraordinary circumstances, and he responded to them with spectacular courage and determination.
Donald was born, sixty-seven years ago, in the Eastern Cape Province of South Africa. He was born into a family who had lived there for five generations. Donald's ancestors arrived in 1820 to settle what the then British Government described as empty land to the east of Cape Town. Of course, the land was not empty, having been settled by the Khoisan, Khoikhoi and Xhosa peoples for many hundreds of years.
As he said himself, Donald grew up accepting the comforts of a normal white South African lifestyle. When he went to Cape Town University, where he studied law, he was even hopeful that the newly elected Nationalist Government would produce a better South Africa, with its new system of apartheid, benefiting all the peoples of the country. He was soon to realise that this was not the case.
He became a cub reporter and eventually went to work on the Daily Despatch in East London in his beloved Eastern Cape. It was here that he met and married his wife, Wendy, who was to be a tower of strength in the years to come. They soon were the parents of a large family, and Donald became editor of the Daily Despatch.
Under Donald, the paper was very critical of the South African government, but it was also critical of the emerging Black Consciousness Movement, under the leadership of Steve Biko. And then, one day, came the major turning point in the lives of Donald, Wendy and their children. A young woman, Mamphela Ramphele, burst into the editor's office and berated Donald for writing misleading stories about the Black Consciousness Movement. She more or less challenged him to meet Steve Biko and Donald, being the good journalist that he was, agreed. The meeting went very well, with Steve Biko settling back into his chair, in a gesture that Donald came to know very well over the years, ready for a long discussion.
The two men became firm friends, which meant of course that Donald and his family attracted the interest of the South African security police. A life of harassment followed, but Donald did not let this affect either his friendship or the political support that he offered. This was done not only through the columns of his newspaper, but in practical ways such as the employment of black journalists. South Africa in the mid-70s was not an easy time to be a friend of one of the leading black activists outside prison.
On June 16th 1976, the children of Soweto organised a march in protest against being taught in Afrikaans and against the Bantu Education system in general. They marched from the Morris Isaacson School intending to hold a rally outside the Education buildings in Johannesburg. The children were met by the police and ordered to disperse. The children refused and the police opened fire. As the children pelted the police with stones, South Africa went up in flames. The government responded by banning the Black Consciousness Movement and many other political organisations. Many people were issued with banning orders. Donald was one of them, and was effectively placed under house arrest.
Steve Biko had been involved in clandestine contacts with the outlawed liberation movements, the African National Congress (ANC) and the Pan Africanist Congress of Azania (PAC). Returning to his home one evening, Biko was arrested, imprisoned and battered to death. He was transported naked, manacled, for seven hundred miles in the back of a police van to Pretoria, and died on the way. Jimmy Kruger, the Minister of Justice, said that Biko died on a hunger strike, and said of his death "Ik laat me koud" (It leaves me cold).
Donald went to the morgue with Ntsiki Biko and somehow managed to get photographs of Steve Biko's battered body. The photographs were published in the Daily Despatch, and exposed the lies of the South African government to the whole world.
Life in South Africa became intolerable for the Woods family, and Donald wanted to leave, but Wendy wanted to stay. Then, on their daughter's sixth birthday a present was delivered. It was a tee shirt for the little girl, impregnated with acid. When Mary put it on, she suffered severe burns. As it was now clear that all the family were targets, the Woods decided to leave South Africa. Donald had to be smuggled out of the house, and made his way to Lesotho disguised as a priest. Wendy pretended that she was taking the children to stay with her parents for a family holiday, and joined Donald. Then, with the help of the Lesotho government, they flew to London and safety.
This was the start of many long years of campaigning. Acting upon the advice of Oliver Tambo, the President of the ANC, Donald became a passionate advocate of sanctions against South Africa. He toured the United States, campaigning for sanctions against apartheid. President Carter arranged a three-hour session for him to address officials in the State Department. He spoke at a session of the United Nations Security Council.
Then Richard Attenborough decided to make a film about Steve Biko, based upon the books, which Donald had written about his friend. Donald and Wendy became closely involved in the project, working closely with Kevin Kline and Penelope Wilton, who played them, Denzel Washington, who played Steve Biko, and with Jonas Gwangwa, who composed the film score. The film was "Cry Freedom".
On 11th February 1990, Nelson Mandela was released from prison after serving twenty-seven years. That Easter, Mandela came to London to attend a concert at Wembley as a special thank you to the Anti-Apartheid Movement and the British people for all their years of campaigning against apartheid. Donald and Wendy decided to buy Mandela a tie in the black, green and gold colours of the African National Congress to celebrate the event. On Easter Sunday, the family had assembled for lunch when the telephone rang. It was Nelson Mandela. He thanked them for the tie and said that he would wear it at the concert the next day, which he did. Donald apparently stood at attention throughout the phone call. Donald thoroughly enjoyed telling this story in later years.
It was a long time from Mandela's release to the first democratic elections in South Africa. Donald supported the fund-raising for the ANC election fund. His son, Dillon, was one of the organisers of the fund-raising appeal in the UK. On 27th April 1994, Donald went to vote at the City Hall in Johannesburg. A cheering crowd took him to the head of the queue, giving him the place of honour so that he could be one of the first to vote in the new South Africa.
Following the election, Donald put his efforts into the Institute for the Advancement of Journalism in Johannesburg. He has thus helped to ensure that journalists in South Africa, and especially those from the communities disadvantaged by apartheid, are given a proper grounding in what he described as their trade.
On 9th September 1997, the twentieth anniversary of the death of Steve Biko, Donald was present in East London when a statue of his friend was unveiled by Nelson Mandela, and when the name bridge in the city across the Buffalo River was renamed the Biko Bridge. He also gave his support to the Action for Southern Africa event in Islington, London honouring his friend, helping to secure messages from Ntsiki Biko, Mamphela Ramphele (now the Vice Chancellor of the University of the Western Cape) and Nelson Mandela. His support was also vital in securing the funding both for the statue, and for the Islington concert.
In the last year of his life, Donald gave his name to support for the appeal fund to raise funds to erect a statue of Nelson Mandela in Trafalgar Square, outside the South African High Commission, where anti-apartheid campaigners had demonstrated for so many years. He also went to Buckingham Palace to receive an OBE.
Donald died of cancer. His funeral will take place at St. Martin's in the Fields, Trafalgar Square, London, on Tuesday 28th August 2001.
The Daily Dispatch is an English language newspaper. The LA times cocked things up if they said otherwise.
|
|
|
17th July 2002 18:58
|
|
SethPowell
Junior Member
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 19
|
|
|
Dear Lord - I go away for a few weeks and in the meantime you compose an epic biography of Donald Woods.
Well done!
I think I know all I'll ever hope to know about the guy.
And, I'm sure the Los Angeles Times didn't cock anything up - as the world's greatest newspaper, they never do. They must've just said something about Woods' ability to speak Xhosa.
yep.
__________________
"I can't remember if I'm the good twin or the evil one."
|
|
|
13th August 2002 21:08
|
|
Allan
Senior Member
Registered: Nov 2000
Posts: 261
|
|
|
No I cut and paste it from some website for your benefit. If I insulted/undermined you, that's your problem because its not how I meant it.
|
|
|
14th August 2002 11:55
|
|
SethPowell
Junior Member
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 19
|
|
|
insulted/undermined.....?
...wha??
__________________
"I can't remember if I'm the good twin or the evil one."
|
|
|
16th August 2002 02:22
|
|
Allan
Senior Member
Registered: Nov 2000
Posts: 261
|
|
|
Your post smacked of sarcasm to me. Clearly I misunderstood. Apologies..
|
|
|
16th August 2002 07:37
|
|
|
All times are SA Local (GMT+2)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
Who Can Read The Forum? Any registered user or guest.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered user.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered user.
Changes: Messages can be edited by their author. Messages can be deleted by their author.
Posts: HTML code is OFF. Smilies are ON. vB code is ON. [IMG] code is ON.
|
Admin Options:
Open / Close Thread
Move Thread
Delete Thread
Edit Thread
|
|
